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	<title>Comments on: Sweet Sixteen, Chapter 20, part 2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://srsuleski.com/queen-of-seven/volume-3-chapter-20-part-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://srsuleski.com/queen-of-seven/volume-3-chapter-20-part-2/</link>
	<description>by Sarah R. Suleski</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 05:39:25 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Kitty</title>
		<link>http://srsuleski.com/queen-of-seven/volume-3-chapter-20-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2334</link>
		<dc:creator>Kitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 04:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srsuleski.com/?p=394#comment-2334</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hmmm.&#160; It seems to me that some people are having a hard time reading everything in to Elly&#039;s character that I see as being there&#160;.&#160;.&#160;.&#160;not that she&#039;s an innocent little lamb, but I don&#039;t think she&#039;s quite as hard shelled as some do.&#160; It&#039;s just that it&#039;s harder to get under that exterior facade than it would be for some other characters, even though the narrative is from her own POV.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That&#039;s part of what makes Sarah&#039;s characters so interesting.&#160; Most authors write about characters who seem to know themselves very well.&#160; Sarah&#039;s characters are more like real people, who generally &lt;em&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; know themselves all that well, who hide things from themselves, who have a slightly (or more than slightly) different view of themselves than what they are in reality.&#160; Her skill in showing the difference between the character&#039;s perception of themselves and the reality of their true nature, is one of the things that sets her writing apart.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;To me, these two chapters show how easy it is to make a mistake and have it snowball into something horrendous.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Or maybe it&#039;s just me again, trying to convince myself that Elly is something that she is not XP&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm.&nbsp; It seems to me that some people are having a hard time reading everything in to Elly&#8217;s character that I see as being there&nbsp;.&nbsp;.&nbsp;.&nbsp;not that she&#8217;s an innocent little lamb, but I don&#8217;t think she&#8217;s quite as hard shelled as some do.&nbsp; It&#8217;s just that it&#8217;s harder to get under that exterior facade than it would be for some other characters, even though the narrative is from her own POV.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s part of what makes Sarah&#8217;s characters so interesting.&nbsp; Most authors write about characters who seem to know themselves very well.&nbsp; Sarah&#8217;s characters are more like real people, who generally <em>don&#8217;t</em> know themselves all that well, who hide things from themselves, who have a slightly (or more than slightly) different view of themselves than what they are in reality.&nbsp; Her skill in showing the difference between the character&#8217;s perception of themselves and the reality of their true nature, is one of the things that sets her writing apart.</p>
<p>To me, these two chapters show how easy it is to make a mistake and have it snowball into something horrendous.</p>
<p>Or maybe it&#8217;s just me again, trying to convince myself that Elly is something that she is not XP</p>
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		<title>By: Donna</title>
		<link>http://srsuleski.com/queen-of-seven/volume-3-chapter-20-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2191</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srsuleski.com/?p=394#comment-2191</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Why Elly gets harsher judgment has nothing to do with sex but her thought process and the reasons why she did what she did and the effects of her actions.&#160;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Elly&#039;s actions had far greater consequences than Sam&#039;s single act.&#160; Sam should have known better, obviously and yes, what he did could have scarred Elly for life.&#160; But it didn&#039;t.&#160; Instead she used that moment to her advantage to get what she wanted from Sam, attention and, eventually, sex.&#160; Elly was innocent went she was six (really, even that&#039;s up for discussion considering her obvious maturity at that age) but not as she grew up and learned to use such a situation to her advantage.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Her intentions were good when trying to heal her grandfather but instead of thinking about what she was doing, she just did it because she wanted a relationship with him.&#160; She didn&#039;t think of what she was doing would actually do to him.&#160; His death was a result of Elly&#039;s want to satisfy herself.&#160;  She did what she did because it&#039;s what she wanted.&#160; Again, she wanted to manipulate the situation to her own advantage.&#160; And it resulted in someone&#039;s death.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The same thing happened with Sam, just without the masked altruism.&#160; Elly used Sam in order to get back at Sien and then turned the situation on its head in order to benefit herself.&#160; The result was Sam&#039;s death.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Because of entirely selfish acts, Elly caused two deaths.&#160; She deserves the weight she has on her shoulders and I don&#039;t pity her for it.&#160; Sam was most definitely a sleaze but it didn&#039;t render him dead.&#160; And the difference between Elly and Sam, Sam learned from his mistake.&#160; Didn&#039;t stop him from being a sleaze but he never put himself in that situation after that with her.&#160; So regardless of how much of scum he is, there is some semblance of a brain functioning in his head.&#160; Not to say Elly&#039;s stupid but she&#039;s obviously not thinking things though, nor is she learning anything at 16 like Sam did at 15.&#160; Remember, he did keep his distance to an extent but Elly goaded him on, something she even admitted to herself.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So for me, the scales tip greatly for Elly to deserve everything she has coming.&#160; I never liked her much to begin with when she was a child because she was so manipulative but this pushed it right over the edge.&#160; That&#039;s not to say Sam isn&#039;t a piece of crap and didn&#039;t deserve a thorough beating but he didn&#039;t deserve to die because of some self-serving little girl.&#160; Consensual statutory rape happens every single say (Miley Cyrus and her boyfriend, anyone?) so I don&#039;t think he deserved to die for having sex with a 16 year old.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I weigh action and consequences.&#160; Maybe if we couldn&#039;t see into Elly&#039;s head and didn&#039;t know she was so manipulative, it&#039;d be different.&#160; But since we see, step by step, just how she utilizes every situation to her own advantage, I find it very hard to pity her, especially when her manipulation caused people to die.&#160; That&#039;s not to say I readily pity Sam.&#160; I know a few torture techniques that would be fitting on him but, for me anyway, it&#039;s hard for me to see him as such a disgusting sicko that deserved to die when Elly was there milking his attention for all it was worth and knew exactly what she was doing to him.&#160; And then lead him to slaughter so she could remain Daddy&#039;s Little Girl.&#160; I just don&#039;t see that as being right.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why Elly gets harsher judgment has nothing to do with sex but her thought process and the reasons why she did what she did and the effects of her actions.&nbsp;</p>
<p>Elly&#8217;s actions had far greater consequences than Sam&#8217;s single act.&nbsp; Sam should have known better, obviously and yes, what he did could have scarred Elly for life.&nbsp; But it didn&#8217;t.&nbsp; Instead she used that moment to her advantage to get what she wanted from Sam, attention and, eventually, sex.&nbsp; Elly was innocent went she was six (really, even that&#8217;s up for discussion considering her obvious maturity at that age) but not as she grew up and learned to use such a situation to her advantage.</p>
<p>Her intentions were good when trying to heal her grandfather but instead of thinking about what she was doing, she just did it because she wanted a relationship with him.&nbsp; She didn&#8217;t think of what she was doing would actually do to him.&nbsp; His death was a result of Elly&#8217;s want to satisfy herself.&nbsp;  She did what she did because it&#8217;s what she wanted.&nbsp; Again, she wanted to manipulate the situation to her own advantage.&nbsp; And it resulted in someone&#8217;s death.</p>
<p>The same thing happened with Sam, just without the masked altruism.&nbsp; Elly used Sam in order to get back at Sien and then turned the situation on its head in order to benefit herself.&nbsp; The result was Sam&#8217;s death.</p>
<p>Because of entirely selfish acts, Elly caused two deaths.&nbsp; She deserves the weight she has on her shoulders and I don&#8217;t pity her for it.&nbsp; Sam was most definitely a sleaze but it didn&#8217;t render him dead.&nbsp; And the difference between Elly and Sam, Sam learned from his mistake.&nbsp; Didn&#8217;t stop him from being a sleaze but he never put himself in that situation after that with her.&nbsp; So regardless of how much of scum he is, there is some semblance of a brain functioning in his head.&nbsp; Not to say Elly&#8217;s stupid but she&#8217;s obviously not thinking things though, nor is she learning anything at 16 like Sam did at 15.&nbsp; Remember, he did keep his distance to an extent but Elly goaded him on, something she even admitted to herself.</p>
<p>So for me, the scales tip greatly for Elly to deserve everything she has coming.&nbsp; I never liked her much to begin with when she was a child because she was so manipulative but this pushed it right over the edge.&nbsp; That&#8217;s not to say Sam isn&#8217;t a piece of crap and didn&#8217;t deserve a thorough beating but he didn&#8217;t deserve to die because of some self-serving little girl.&nbsp; Consensual statutory rape happens every single say (Miley Cyrus and her boyfriend, anyone?) so I don&#8217;t think he deserved to die for having sex with a 16 year old.</p>
<p>I weigh action and consequences.&nbsp; Maybe if we couldn&#8217;t see into Elly&#8217;s head and didn&#8217;t know she was so manipulative, it&#8217;d be different.&nbsp; But since we see, step by step, just how she utilizes every situation to her own advantage, I find it very hard to pity her, especially when her manipulation caused people to die.&nbsp; That&#8217;s not to say I readily pity Sam.&nbsp; I know a few torture techniques that would be fitting on him but, for me anyway, it&#8217;s hard for me to see him as such a disgusting sicko that deserved to die when Elly was there milking his attention for all it was worth and knew exactly what she was doing to him.&nbsp; And then lead him to slaughter so she could remain Daddy&#8217;s Little Girl.&nbsp; I just don&#8217;t see that as being right.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://srsuleski.com/queen-of-seven/volume-3-chapter-20-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2180</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 01:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srsuleski.com/?p=394#comment-2180</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If Elly doesn&#039;t deserve any pity for the consequences of her wrongdoings, than neither does Sam, which creates a conundrum.&#160; Because then one could argue that from the point in the garage on, Sam deserves everything he gets, which excuses Elly from wrongdoing when she causes him to &quot;get it.&quot;&#160; After all, Sam was 15, not 5.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My point is simply that you can certainly have pity for someone when they get what they deserve.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Obviously, you can decide against having pity for that person &#8212; like deciding against pitying Sam and considering Elly justified in whatever she did, or pitying only Sam and not Elly.&#160; That just leads me to wonder, why righteous rage against Elly for her wrongdoings but not for Sam?&#160; Do you judge a teenaged girl more harshly for her sins than a teenaged boy?&#160; Doesn&#039;t matter if he&#039;s not a &quot;true pedophile,&quot; he should never have exposed himself and tried to initiate contact with a 6 year old.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I guess you could say my opinion is that everyone deserves a little pity because there&#039;s no one who makes the right decision, the selfless decision, in every situation.&#160; Characters who do that aren&#039;t believable as real people.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In the end, both Elly and Sam did wrong things and will continue to suffer consequences for the rest of their lives.&#160; I never let any of my characters go unpunished, but then, obviously it would be pointless to write about them if my readers have no pity for them.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Elly doesn&#8217;t deserve any pity for the consequences of her wrongdoings, than neither does Sam, which creates a conundrum.&nbsp; Because then one could argue that from the point in the garage on, Sam deserves everything he gets, which excuses Elly from wrongdoing when she causes him to &#8220;get it.&#8221;&nbsp; After all, Sam was 15, not 5.</p>
<p>My point is simply that you can certainly have pity for someone when they get what they deserve.</p>
<p>Obviously, you can decide against having pity for that person &#8212; like deciding against pitying Sam and considering Elly justified in whatever she did, or pitying only Sam and not Elly.&nbsp; That just leads me to wonder, why righteous rage against Elly for her wrongdoings but not for Sam?&nbsp; Do you judge a teenaged girl more harshly for her sins than a teenaged boy?&nbsp; Doesn&#8217;t matter if he&#8217;s not a &#8220;true pedophile,&#8221; he should never have exposed himself and tried to initiate contact with a 6 year old.</p>
<p>I guess you could say my opinion is that everyone deserves a little pity because there&#8217;s no one who makes the right decision, the selfless decision, in every situation.&nbsp; Characters who do that aren&#8217;t believable as real people.</p>
<p>In the end, both Elly and Sam did wrong things and will continue to suffer consequences for the rest of their lives.&nbsp; I never let any of my characters go unpunished, but then, obviously it would be pointless to write about them if my readers have no pity for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Donna</title>
		<link>http://srsuleski.com/queen-of-seven/volume-3-chapter-20-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2172</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srsuleski.com/?p=394#comment-2172</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Elly deserves absolutely not pity.&#160; She&#039;s a self-centered little tart that obviously doesn&#039;t learn from her mistakes.&#160; Sorry, but she deserves everything she has coming to her from this point on.&#160; She had a chance to make it right and she chose not to in order to save her own skin.&#160; She&#039;s 16, not 6.&#160; Her behavior is inexcusable.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elly deserves absolutely not pity.&nbsp; She&#8217;s a self-centered little tart that obviously doesn&#8217;t learn from her mistakes.&nbsp; Sorry, but she deserves everything she has coming to her from this point on.&nbsp; She had a chance to make it right and she chose not to in order to save her own skin.&nbsp; She&#8217;s 16, not 6.&nbsp; Her behavior is inexcusable.</p>
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		<title>By: Joanofarce</title>
		<link>http://srsuleski.com/queen-of-seven/volume-3-chapter-20-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2148</link>
		<dc:creator>Joanofarce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srsuleski.com/?p=394#comment-2148</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Who here didn&#039;t see that coming! 
Poor Elly, Poor Russ. This was  what he was trying to avoid. Now I wonder what is going to happen next.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who here didn&#8217;t see that coming!<br />
Poor Elly, Poor Russ. This was  what he was trying to avoid. Now I wonder what is going to happen next.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Williams</title>
		<link>http://srsuleski.com/queen-of-seven/volume-3-chapter-20-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2139</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srsuleski.com/?p=394#comment-2139</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;See, things are getting worse faster and faster.&#160; Poor family. :(&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Liseli&#039;s going to be pissed!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, things are getting worse faster and faster.&nbsp; Poor family. <img src='http://srsuleski.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Liseli&#8217;s going to be pissed!</p>
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		<title>By: Kunama</title>
		<link>http://srsuleski.com/queen-of-seven/volume-3-chapter-20-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2137</link>
		<dc:creator>Kunama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 13:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srsuleski.com/?p=394#comment-2137</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;He said with a touch helplessness, as if he had no idea what that meant, or what he was supposed to be doing.&quot;
a touch of&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;He was obviously more scared of the idea of her being raped that she was.&quot;
that vs than&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He said with a touch helplessness, as if he had no idea what that meant, or what he was supposed to be doing.&#8221;<br />
a touch of</p>
<p>&#8220;He was obviously more scared of the idea of her being raped that she was.&#8221;<br />
that vs than</p>
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		<title>By: Slaxor</title>
		<link>http://srsuleski.com/queen-of-seven/volume-3-chapter-20-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2136</link>
		<dc:creator>Slaxor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 23:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srsuleski.com/?p=394#comment-2136</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;She can still do her magic. So much for that rule.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She can still do her magic. So much for that rule.</p>
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		<title>By: daymon</title>
		<link>http://srsuleski.com/queen-of-seven/volume-3-chapter-20-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2135</link>
		<dc:creator>daymon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 22:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srsuleski.com/?p=394#comment-2135</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well looks like Elly will think a bit more now before telling a lie that can hurt someone.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well looks like Elly will think a bit more now before telling a lie that can hurt someone.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://srsuleski.com/queen-of-seven/volume-3-chapter-20-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2134</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 20:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srsuleski.com/?p=394#comment-2134</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sounds like she just died a bit inside. She&#039;ll need to live up to that phoenix costume.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like she just died a bit inside. She&#8217;ll need to live up to that phoenix costume.</p>
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